(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. I sold that pistol when I got it back. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. . The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. 3. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. I agree. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. It was expensive. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. BAM. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Sound familiar? The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. Bravo. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. How about something more relevant. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. Plastic crap! Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. I didnt even touch it! There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Theres a couple of possibilities. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. He probably had a double until it was over. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. how do I get one for my P320? Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. 3. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. Period. He was told to shoot two rounds. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. First off, no joke on me. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. But that's not working in the P320, he said. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Its a novelty, its got issues! In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. He was told to shoot two rounds. Nope. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. 01:10. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. They didnt have to, but did. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. One hell of a conspiracy. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? Give me a break. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. Either the gun is defective or its not. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. JTF-2 is the only unit in. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. The problem is non-existent. Fair enough. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. The Glock fails on both counts. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. Kyle . Asking for a friend. Dude, your story is THREE years old. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. That could happen easily. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. (unless theyre SWAT or something). Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. Yaaay! The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. Fine. But Shatner? TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Was it his fault? . Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol.
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