Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM. BA, American, Delta, Air Canada perhaps need to rethink their offering. I will typically choose Delta if given an equal choice, mainly because my FF status will play towards upgrades and my app works. The KLM food is OK -- tending toward being over-prepared with mouse-like side-dishes and casseroles, but it was perfectly fine, and in huge quantities. If you are a resident of another country or region, please select the appropriate version of Tripadvisor for your country or region in the drop-down menu. In 2019 alone, the airline carried 46,903,000 passengers. This was true on all four flights, so I'd hazard it's part of the corporate culture. Tiffany - I have lots of AA miles, and lots of Chase Ultimate Rewards, SPG miles. Never thought that would happen! Hopefully you wont be disappointed with either one. I generally take a tablet so that doesn't bother me. However, on the A330-300, the center aisle only has partial dividers. Fingers crossed that no one is in the 'F' seat next to me. However, for a more robust connection, you can go with. My family is considering a trip to Paris in August. I very much enjoy reading it and all of your posts before. All meals are served in trays and stylish Alessi tableware. The current Air France promo that provides for refundability of the ticket price is only for flights through June 30, 2022. For in-flight catering, shorter domestic flights have a selection of coffee, snacks, tea, and bottled water in the economy, while those who board higher classes may enjoy complimentary wine, soft drinks, beer, and juices. Business class sits directly behind the exclusive, four-seat La Premiere first-class cabin. Each meal is handed on a tray with real ceramic tableware and cutlery. But in my opinion, another possible way you can go to AKL is to fly EY from LAX-AUH and then AUH-LHR again on EY (or BA if you want to try different first class) and finally LHR-SYD-AKL on QF. Kinda like when United was digesting Continental and it was always a crapshoot. Diarrhea isnt what she was necessarily referring to. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2023 BY AU POINTS & AWARDS CONSULTING SERVICES LLC. @ bobbieddie -- What miles do you have at present? Image Credit: Delta Air Lines. For information on refunds, visit their website. AF's older PE seats (still in their 777's, for instance) are the dreaded clamshell. Although, I've found most of their flight attendants to be bored and uninterested (or as Lucky says, they are "going through the motions.") The lounge is free for business class passengers including SkyTeam Alliance members. Really loving Tiffany's contributions - always great analysis and a talent for communicating clearly even quite convoluted matters. Sorry, I know this is not Tiffany answering (and I'm sure her reply with be x10000 better than mine), but I want to share what I would picked in the past. These kits are handmade and contain items from eco-conscious brands like a dental kit from Humble Companies and skincare essentials from Grown Alchemist. Its major hubs include Atlanta, Los Angeles, Detroit, Minneapolis/St. So business class it is! While Delta doesn't quite have the foreign flair of any of these 4, it does have good seats on all aircraft, very good catering (great on certain premium routes like JFK and ATL to LHR, CDG, AMS and FRA), and the rest of the soft product is very good as well. Each seat has several universal power outlets including a USB port, storage areas, a sleek blue and white color combination, a huge touchscreen monitor with an entertainment controller, a reading lamp, and on occasion, a personal air vent. I seem to remember that used to be true. God help you if you ever experience any disruptions or IRROPS on Air Franceas soon as anything deviates from the 'norm'/going by the book they do not have a CLUE. Food was soso. Hope this helps! As a single traveler, I generally prefer private pods, though I far prefer those on DL A330s (which face out on the sides) to DL 777s (which seem similar to VS). What really impressed me, though, is that KLM turns off the seat belt light upon reaching cruising altitude and does not turn it back on until final approach. Guests can also request coffee or pastries if they opt to skip breakfast. Delta One Business Class Seats. However, Delta for many is the preferred domestic airline, and as Tiffany mentioned, presents many great options when redeeming to Europe. If Air France is Fashion Week, Virgin Atlantic is Spring Break. Air France has La Premire, Business, Premium Economy, and Economy. It uses Airbus A320 family aircraft on short-haul routes. It would be delta one vs AF airbus 350 business class. The airline manages the Air France Vaccinations Center in the 7th arrondissement, Paris. Criteria Delta 777-200 Air France 777-200; Cabin Arrangement: 1-2-1 Herringbone: . And yes, YouTube videos can help. Aircraft Specifications CRUISING SPEED 537 mph (864 km/h) RANGE 6,995 miles (11,257 km) ENGINES Trent 7000 WINGSPAN 210 ft 0 in (64.0 m) TAIL HEIGHT 55 ft 1 in (16.8 m) LENGTH 218 ft 7in (66.7 m) Accessibility Information Maximum dimensions for an assistive device carried in the cargo hold: 36 in (height) x 36 in (width) However, Delta for many is the preferred domestic airline, and as Tiffany mentioned, presents many great options when redeeming to Europe. Tiffany; It might not be as extra friendly but its highly professional. (Just a tip, the cappuccino is excellent!). I would easily choose to fly DL business class over AF, LH or BA business class. Everyones intestinal process is their own and varied greatly. I loved this post! 2023 Rick Steves' Europe, Inc. | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy. Selected movies are available too in Hindi, Japanese, Chinese, and Korean. Monthly subscriptions begin at $69.95. Air France and Delta are outstanding airlines that have gotten their business product down to pat. -When you say KLM's service is "adorably Dutch," what you mean to say is "indifferent, gruff, borderline German". For those that have flown is their a major. Guests are also entitled to two checked-in baggage, each weighing up to 70 pounds or 32 kilos each. Any gastroenterologist can affirm people can definitely move materials faster than that. If you like to accumulate Skymiles, I'd also be concerned about whether you'll earn those if you book directly on Air France. It's deliberately misleading, you still get sky priority security, advance seat selection, lounges, boarding, +1 bag (light ticket has 0 bags if you don't have status), etc. All of the staff are friendly and accommodating. Food is served over white tablecloths in real ceramic dishes and silverware. One on Air France that flies a 777-300ER. AF356 leaves Paris-Charles de Gaulle at 1415, arriving in Toronto at 1745, a flight of around seven hours and thirty minutes . This has been managed by both Air France and KLM. It also has a solid IFE and quality soft service. I haven't flown AF except domestic recently. Review: EgyptAir Lounge Cairo Airport (CAI), Lufthansas Boeing 787 Business Class: Exactly As Expected. Now, THIS, I remember ! Professional and attentive, the service on Air France business cabins is great. Curved glass ceilings allow bright sunlight to filter in the daytime as well as views of the runway in the distance. Similarly, if Air France operates a long-haul flight from Paris (CDG) to Denver (DEN), its lie-flat seat is also called business class. That way it can become an around the work in first class trip! Tiffany - enjoy your style and posts. The worst flight I ever had was on Air France. All of these are fitted with the Delta One Business Class seat, but the product can vary wildly as the airline has updated its fleet in stages leaving some planes with more archaic seats than others. These are comfortable and go a long way toward giving you rest. I able to compare the two last year with Virgin on the flight to Manchester (old plane, crap seating and running out of choices to eat and being told that if I really wanted beef that they'd get me a beef stew from coach. Lavatories designated for Delta One Business passengers can vary depending on the plane. . All of the seats are forward facing and upholstered with striking blue leather fabric with diamond stitching detail. The service and food on the return 777 was awful. Review: read my review of Delta's Business Class in a Airbus A350 here. Answer 11 of 15: I have not flown to France in years and now doing my homework. Id pay more to enjoy nonstop flights. I've flown both airlines in business. Clear, funny and to the point. If you fly from Miami, only AirFrance operates that code share flight. I hadn't flown DL in forever and don't collect their miles, but bought one of their relatively inexpensive business class fares to Madrid and found it to be quite good. Your email address will not be published. Not only is it not lie flat, but there is basically no personal stowage for passport, phone, etc and the amenities bag is a joke. I will note though that you left off Delta themselves, which can still be available at the Tier 1 number of miles on many TATL routes if you book well in advance. Can't believe I missed that (and that no one else caught it either). In front of each seat is an 18.5-inch monitor with a multitude of shows and movies for entertainment. If you know youll be redeeming your miles soon, this is a great way to bolster your account balances. It has fantastic food, a beautiful cabin, as well as impeccable service. Ive found both to be excellent carriers. Take this amazing class and start making your travel dreams possible! You make me want to have some skypesos to burn. Moreover, a rowdy group of AF non-rev people were having a party, and they did not invite me. The fees amount is determined by the trip. We went through some bumpy skies, especially over the equator, and it was refreshing not to be awakened with seat belt announcements, which are common on Delta. The major downside to Virgin Atlantic is London Heathrow. Image Credit: Air France. Alitalia is poised to get some hand-me-downs a makeover from Etihad, which will result in a more stylish cabin, Wi-Fi, and some updates to the catering. She said she had used AAdvantage miles because she travels a lot for work. I want to do LAX-AUK in Aug 2016 with SO's in China, HKG, MEL on outbound. As for codeshare flights and being switched from one to the other, at the time of booking you can see who is flying the metal, so if you have a strong preference, you can manage it. It is headquartered in Tremblay-en-France and is a subsidiary of the Air-France-KLM Group. I have no idea. Sleeping amenities such as a pillow and blanket are already on your seat. Business class passengers each have a personal 16-inch high-definition touchscreen. I was not happy. Both airlines had good food, but I thought . Both airlines operate globally, and they offer luxury and comfort irrespective of the type of fare class. However, if you want to stream content, the Stream Pass costs 30 Euros or about $32. Premium Delta Sky Club lounge access is available with access to partner lounges across the world. This hasn't been true for me recently. I have flown AirFrance a few times and swore never again. On their 777-300 aircraft, the La Premire cabin only contains 4 exclusive suites in a 1-2-1 layout. Appetizers go first alongside your drinks. Whether you choose one or the other, both these airlines will ensure youll have a fantastic flight wherever you head off to. Does Air France give preference to their own FF members and those that booked with them, as far as allowing seat assignment choices? Thus, privacy is unparalleled. -CDG is the worst, but that's not entirely AF's fault (after all, Terminal 1 which is the non-SkyTeam terminal is just as horrid), and AF's lounges in CDG are very, very strong The Delta One business class cabin is made for business travelers and anyone who wants to be comfortable during their travels. That's probably the best starting point. I won't go too in-depth with this part of the comparison but I can't neglect it either. Fixed now! Delta One Business Class Amenity Kit Someone Somewhere. I have heard people complain about Delta and always wonder why. What are the connecting flights and airports if any? This is another area where Air France has promised to improve its service. I arrived at the boarding gate for CDG-LAX while the A380 was still there, but I was told I was too late and nothing could be done. If you don't happen to be flying from Paris, Air France is a partner in SkyTeam alliance, which has lounges in most major airports. Keep overlooking as far as Air Europa is concerned ;-). This is bad above and beyond the angled flat beds. On the other hand, Delta One is also a strong contender if you want a world-class business cabin. Before Covid-19, Air France still had 4 different business class versions, but now, as the A380 & A340 have left the fleet, only 3 remain. Air France says that its premium economy seat provides 40 per cent more space than in economy, and the fixed-shell design means that you won't encroach on the space of the person behind when. If it's only Delta One, not the suites, you aren't in a completely enclosed space. Here, the menu includeshors doeuvre,bread basket,entres, and cheeses, with a dessert cart includingpetit fours,pastries, and tartles. You will findAir France Magazine, the airlines official in-flight publication, in Business cabins and lounges andLa Premire. A points consultant is the right person to talk to if you want to experience luxury travel for cheap! If youre actuallygoing to London, then Virgin is a great choice (probably the best choice when redeeming Delta miles). The new seats convert into lie-flat beds measuring 78.7 inches in length and 22.4 inches in width. differences between first and business class, Quick Glance: Air France Business Class vs. Delta One Business Class, The Details: Air France Business Class vs. Delta One Business Class. I was not happy. Frequent travelers who require more data can also go for a monthly subscription starting at $69.95 for international flights. New Air France business class with reverse-herringbone lie-flat seats. Meals aboard Air France are noteworthy, both in presentation and taste. Personally, I am a major fan of Oneworld, so I would recommend CX for LAX-HKG and then fly QF for HKG-AUK via SYD or MEL (but SYD would be better for a premium passenger connecting). Air France is a founding member of the SkyTeam international airline team. On the one hand, their flight attendants are fabulously, nearly uncomfortablystylish. Do you have a favorite? Delta now uses an amenity kit provided by. Aboard the Delta One cabin, guests can pre-order meals from 30 days up to 24 hours before their flight. The AF 777 business layout is the herringbone pattern, almost identical to the Delta product on the A330. Travel light and free by using your hard-earned points! All Air France planes are scheduled to have the new product by the summer of 2017. Image Credit: Delta Air Lines. Thank you, Tiff, for a good analysis without the "Oh-I-must-fly-first-class-only " attitude! Owing to the COVID-19 pandemic, the airline adjusted its once stringent and expensive ticket change and cancellation policies and fees. You can expect a width of 21 inches and a pitch of 77 to 78 inches, providing plenty of room to lounge and sleep. Am starting to collect Citi Thank You Rewards as well. I mean, look at these bowls: KLM business class breakfast bowls. Their crappy old planes, the seat layout where you cannot look out the windows so you spend your time staring at another person because you are angled facing that person, the truly awful meals for a business class product. I asked about an upgrade to First for my trouble and delay, but AF said it was not possible, even though that cabin turned out to be empty. Next to the shower is a relaxation pod where you can take a nap. Maybe the EU is less litigious, but for whatever reason, it was a pleasant surprise to have common sense prevail. Both seat styles though come with plentiful storage space including a reading light, power outlet and side table. (Old rule was that the credit is valid for one year from the date of original purchase of the tickets.) Any tips on how best to do that? Also if you fly via JFK, there are 6 AF/DL flights to Paris, 4 operated by AF and 2 operated by Delta. Moreover, a rowdy group of AF non-rev people were having a party, and they did not invite me. On 20 November 2009, Air France introduced the A380 with service to New York citys JFK Airport from the French capitals Charles de Gaulle Airport. Anyway, back to KLM, I found the FAs to be extremely pleasant, knowledgeable, and eager to keep the passengers happy. But I hate that you can't choose your seat with Air France like you can with Delta unless you pay. The service and food were outstanding on the outbound flight from LAX-CDG, but the business cabin was almost empty. Although, it all comes down to how many miles you have/how many miles your willing to spend. Business Class is found mostly on international routes and planes that are configured for long-haul travel. Going to Asia, Korean Air and Delta's own metal (flights to Tokyo and Hong Kong via Seattle) present good options. Booking your Air France Business Class ticket directly through airlines can be costly. New Air France business class with reverse-herringbone lie-flat seats All Air France planes are scheduled to have the new product by the summer of 2017. Get a full 180-degree flatbed on board the Delta One. I don't remember Delta offering the champagne. Discover the Business cabin: an exclusive, convenient and peaceful space, available on our intercontinental flights. It is a beautiful little town with a beautiful landscape. Their business seats are carefully designed with ample storage space, great legroom, a robust IFE, and a fantastic bed. Wonderful posts and responses. Meanwhile, Delta One is technically Deltas business class offering. Alitalia has a great lie-flat business class, with a staggered seating configuration: Alitalia business class seat ugly, but comfy. These airlines feature redesigned business products to deliver comfortable and stylish new seats and superb amenities while ensuring a lavish journey for their passengers. If the spa is open, guests can get a 20-minute Clarins spa treatment. The business class in the A380 was no longer up to today's standards, unlike the business class that's installed in the Boeing 787-Dreamliner and Airbus A350, which is modern and comfortable. Delta One seats feature a family-friendly or companion-friendly center aisle. With me it's up to the seating arrangements. What a steal between the US and Europe! Air France has always been my first choice, then Delta. Since DL has 2 cabins, it would be a version of first class. Curious to know which option is better. Avoid it at all costs because all around its not worth paying much more than a domestic first/business class fare. We noticed the there are two business class options from Atlanta nonstop to Paris. In 52 countries on 6 continents, Delta serves 325 destinations as its carrier flies as many as 200 million passengers in a year. The lowest tier for surfing or emails starts at $6.95 per hour and climbs to $12.95 per hour plans. I am looking at a flight in September from Atlanta to Paris and can fly either with Delta or Air France business class, yes they code share. But the KLM lounge people rearranged things and got me in 1A again, which, for a day flight, was fine even in the older seat, with more legroom than the new one would have afforded. I feel it is hype over substance. We earn Skymiles when we book on Delta even when the flight is on a partner airline, but I believe that if you book directly with the partner airline, you don't. That way you can drink even more champagne and enjoy the experience more ;) so that may be a possibility for you. There are salads, pastries, cheeses, and more for you to indulge in. The 777-300 has the most seating variation. Booking confirmation usually bears these conditions. Outside of banner ads published through the Boarding Area network, this compensation does not impact how and where products appear on this site. more, Not allowing me to select seats in BA premium economy, Seats 15D & 15G - United Boeing 777-300ER. Peter is the editor of France Travel Blog. travlermb says: June 19, 2017 at 7:28 pm. The irony is that finally Delta has caught up in terms of its seat in its Business Elite with a full-sized pillow and duvet and REALLY comfortable seats, which unlike Virgin you have more choice than either go to bed or sit up straight, plus the signature Delta friendliness of its flight attendants. Business class cabin seats have just four large seats and are larger than the first class cabin, making it one of the most private sections of an airplane. (CST #2143630-50) |, Get Exclusive Travel Hacking Tips That I Only Share With Email Subscribers. I did find that, for all hour KLM flights, my stranger-seatmates were delightful. There's also the overlooked Air Europa for Skyteam although there may be a good reason why they are overlooked Nice article! Rest of Europe I'd say KLM because of the better seats than AF (though I'd say AF once refurbishment is completed), the strong regional network (especially in Scandinavia and the UK), Schiphol being a better airport than CDG and FCO combined and tge Delft houses which are a reason to fly in itself. Food and Snacks @Tiffany: Great post even if you're infringing on my SkyTeam beat here ;-) What I'd add would be: -Air France's catering is of a bit better quality than KLM, Alitalia or Virgin Atlantic (and if you're harping on KLM's dinnerware, you're forgetting AF has Christofle cutlery) -Air France's service is not just stylish, but actively warm/personable -CDG is the worst, but that's not entirely AF's fault (after all, Terminal 1 which is the -Air France's catering is of a bit better quality than KLM, Alitalia or Virgin Atlantic (and if you're harping on KLM's dinnerware, you're forgetting AF has Christofle cutlery) For messaging on Facebook or WhatsApp, its free. Delta has recently extended the life of credit vouchers. Compared to the previous lounge, this ones larger with a four-door entrance thats hard to miss. It was announced on 16 September 2011 that orders for 50 Airbus A350s and Boeing 787 with 60 options have been made. We flew BC with Delta (domestic), KLM and AF (both transatlantic and within Europe).last year. Image Credit: Delta Air Lines, Delta Air Lines Delta One Business Class Overview. Join Date: Sep 2009. Its not the best but comes with decent performance. 6 Things You Should Know About Surfing Before Heading Out In The Ocean, 6 Awesome Travel Locations For All Golf Lovers, Essential Camping Equipment Everyone Needs, Useful Tips That Will Make Your Next Outdoor Adventure More Exciting, Hot Air Balloon Rides in Paris: Why You Should Take One, South of France Money-Saving Tips for Students, What To Do On a Romantic Weekend in Paris, Where to Eat the Best American Food in Paris, How to Host the Perfect French Dinner Party, 4 Cities in France That Are Perfect for Shopping, Marketing your Travel Website or Holiday Home: Tips and Tricks, The Best Travel Bags For Your Next Holiday In France, Why the Transport System of Paris is One of the Best, Paris Travel Blog: The Ultimate Paris Travel Guide, Must-Experience: 3 Fabulous Flower Festivals in France, Study in France: What Books I Read in College. The food, the wine, the crew bellissimo. On long-haul flights, the Surf Pass costs 8 Euros ($8.55). As soon as you settle onboard, you get pre-flight drinks before takeoff and youll be handed a menu as well. Its composed of two floors and capable of accommodating up to 570 passengers at one time. However, there is currently an increased sign-up bonus on the personal and business Delta Amex cards, which makes it relatively easy to pick up a bunch of SkyMiles quickly. There are pastries, yogurt, salads, or an omelet. 60 Airbus A220-300s have already replaced the smaller Airbus A318. Depending on the aircraft, guests will get slightly different seats. On the other hand, the economy section of AF is well-upgraded but not very comfortable, whereas Lufthansa has a great economy class. Therefore, the airline intends to put more Airbus A220 on its domestic network. Economy vs. On other aircraft, you might find the movie selections to be a bit sparse. So, does everyone discount DL because there's no availability? I would fly Delta just so you don't have to deal with the possibility of a strike. I am (most unhappily) seated in such a section on an AF from ATL to CDG tonight. It's night and days between the two! The Delta One business class lavatories are nothing special compared to other lavatories on the plane. We noticed the there are two business class options from Atlanta nonstop to Paris. Air France offers one of the most prestigious and luxurious cabins in the air right, the Air France La Premiere. FWIW, I flew Delta out of Paris recently and overheard the purser telling a passenger that the Paris station did not have the highest of reputations. Totally agree on the AF 7 across. I also love how KLM has continued their pre-deregulation tradition of giving passengers a last drink on the house. If you thought the dishes were fun. Air France Business Class Bed. If you happen to have a T-Mobile or Sprint line then you get an hours worth of free Internet when you fly on Delta. I could go on but you get the drift. I'd initially chosen Seat 1A, but was involuntarily moved to the last row in the middle-most of three seats. I have flown Air France, on the sloped sleeper seats. The meal service starts shortly after takeoff. Three reasons we love Delta business class 1. How do you feel it compares to the other partners? On the other, the ground experience at Charles de Gaulle is worse than dragging Ben to Disneyworld. As for in-flight entertainment, the airline offers Audio Video on Demand (AVOD) in every cabin on long flights. Soon after settling in your seat, an attendant will hand out the menu and offer welcome drinks. It just sets the mood for the dining experience. I booked a roundtrip flight on KLM for the outbound (Dusseldorf - Amsterdam - Los Angeles), and Air France on the inbound (Los Angeles . I may buck the trend here, but I HATED Virgin Atlantic. 8/10. Alitalia already has the best catering of anytransatlantic SkyTeam carrier, in my opinion, so Im excited to see the new concepts. These are angled seats, angled towards the window, or angled toward each other, if in the middle. Air France Vs Delta. Sleeping on the Delta One is made extra comfy thanks to premium. Delta One business class guests receive top priority when it comes to ground services. For any tickets purchased this year, if you later cancel the flight, you get full credit for the amount you spent, valid through 12/31/23. In addition, when onboard Delta, you dont have to worry about missing the news, and social media banters. If lounges are important to you, its hard to do better in business class than the Virgin Clubhouses. The second option being Delta about a 767-400ER. Air Frances drinks menu is also extensive with premium liquor, an excellent wine list, cocktails, beer, as well as champagne. The mains are then served, usually a choice between meat, seafood, or poultry. As we learned last week, leveraging Deltas partners is the best way to not get screwed when redeeming SkyMiles, sowhen reader Nolan asked the following on the Ask Lucky forum recentlyI was excited to answer: The improvement in partner products is ahuge boon to the SkyMiles program. Their crappy old planes, the seat layout where you cannot look out the windows so you spend your time staring at another person because you are angled facing that person, the truly awful meals for a business class product. Swiss is the pride of the Lufthansa group, which also manages Lufthansa itself, Brussels Airlines, Eurowings, and Austrian Airlines. My husband and I have status on Delta but are flying Air France and Virgin Atlantic on two different itineraries this year. While Delta also has fantastic seats, Air Frances new seats on their business cabin have the added edge of being beautifully chic! You can still (usually) earn towards status when flying partners. Having trouble even getting KLM award space to show up on Delta's site. Service, efficiency, food, priority check-in, passport, luggage, lounge access, toilet cleanliness will be the same. If you get peckish in between the flight, there are light snacks and beverages available. Delta and Air France both offer several fare classes, much to the convenience of passengers. The Delta 767s still have the "straight ahead" layout which I kind of like, pictures online will illustrate that for you better than I can describe it but your feet end up in the space between the seats in front when you're fully reclined. Air France operates several different Boeing 777-300ER interior configurations, but this flight was operated by the airline's most premium-heavy aircraft, featuring four seats in the La Prmiere-branded first class section and a whopping 58 business class seats. Whether to relax or get some work done, the new Business seat boasts new features to enhance your travel experience: 17.3-inch 4K screen, noise . The latest seats on the Boeing 777-200ER have sliding doors and lie flat seats creating a pod-like feel for guests. For drinks, Delta has a good roster from top-quality champagne and wine to common liquor like Peach Bellini and Grey Goose Vodka. The DL product in biz class, known as Delta One, is excellent. 6. However, for other status perks, like an upgrade, you either can not get one, or are at the back of the pack behind the AF status holders.