My friend have had to camp out overnight outside the property management office to get access to the new apartment and this is [01:09] you know things coming online, you can order a cab via phone, you can book a hotel online. Got it. And so back to your point, yes, we want investors who are supportive of the fact that we didnt try to monetize the platform for the first three years because it would have created a barrier to entry. So paradoxically, I dont think the core DNA of a companys culture is built at ski tracks or offsite. Theyre struggling to kind of grow their audience because they didnt have enough listings whereas Zumper at the getgo we had a lot of unique landlords on the platform that no one else had. "While many markets cool off during the winter, Miami is still posting month-over-month increases. Raising money first, marketplace businesses is still really difficult and Ive raised $90 million and Im still saying it is difficult. So what was that process like you were talking about, yes, your network of Harvard but can you share with us like what was that process of landing Kleiner on your seed round? And to be fair, some of these 20 did indeed come back later to invest but in Boston and I pitched all of the east coast investors first because I was on the east coast and they were straight nos. I love it. So you know I think Axle Springer very used to appraising companies that match their scale. A lot of that is in the bank. I didnt think that either of them originally. Two sided marketplaces are so difficult. Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. In terms of the dynamics, I think in the early days, you kind of through osmosis graduate towards like the things that are important. Were incredibly grateful for everything she did and she remains kind of shareholder in the company. The reality is often in the early stages, youre going to want to take all the capital thats given to you and you may not have multiple term sheets. So you kind of just have to [25:29] but just to be clear yeah, we had far more nos than yeses at the seed round. Got it. Alejandro: Got it. Well, first of all, your point about quashing the egg and shooting the chicken. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. And so when you think about AB testing frameworks, you think about how many started [03:43] that is a [03:44] grad school taught me. Saying that, in the early days you kind of need to bring on all the capital that you can. And then now your job at five, six years in with a team of a hundred with higher and amazing executive team who are all better at doing their jobs than you would ever be and so your job is almost as a CEO is to like hire yourself out of a job where you hire people, where you look at them and you think, Wow, I cant believe you report to me. So I saw NEA, Kleiner Perkins, Graylog, Andreesen Horrowitz, just to name a few. And so I wouldnt be too pressured. So I think three months is an efficient round. It just really helps to divide and conquer like that while I was meeting new investors again. Anthemos Georgiades: Its just part of the game and it doesnt [24:30]. Great question. So what I wanted to ask you here is in terms of on boarding lets say this type of, because its a different beast, you know type of investors so how does the approach from evaluating an investor that is a VC, an angel or an angel group shift towards evaluating a potential strategic corporation that is looking to become part of your cap table? Alrightee. So it doesnt always work out and I think thats fine. Because I speak with a ton of founders that are perhaps opening up the possibility of bringing on corporations and I think that you need to really do it right. Its really built in the dark days of when stuff is really difficult and I think Zumpers culture now is we have a lot of users still remembers and its a testament to those dark days and we never take anything for granted. And were they like obviously now youre opening here the cap table to a different breed and I guess when that happen probably at a strategic level lets say from a board perspective or something you know, maybe you receive some type of recommendations whether it was with this corporation or with other corporations as to what perhaps to look for and what to avoid. I think Id say forget everything you think you know and everything, your education [38:28]. And [14:42] in Silicon Valley is married to [graphics 14:43] mostly in terms of great companies just break out and succeed [agnostic 14:48] as to where people went to college or if they came from a wealthy or poor family. It is not closely married to [14:55] and thats where its still on [14:58] I think Silicon Valley has a long way to go where when I got my first introductions to VCs to Kleiner, to Andreseen, to Graylock, to NEA, it often came through my graduate school network where someone was like, Hey, this guy is leaving HBS. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. So strategically that was a good marriage where they had a great consumer brand and we have really fantastic supply side inventory. Not really actually. "These markets had a huge net migration from New York and California, and they have held up," he says. Youll get terms sheets and yeses hopefully quicker than that but this process takes a while and as the money increases and a few rounds become more complicated, it can take more than three months as well. In many instances, really acquisitions are great to either feel growth on the company itself, either on the product or perhaps by adding a great talent, but unfortunately many M&A transactions fail really on the integration side of things. Got it. We have like four people at the company for the first year or maybe five for the first year and so theres so much to do and theres so little time and few resources that you actually theres no real intellectual whiteboarding session that you do to carve out rose. Get Anthemos Georgiades's email address (a*****@zumper.com) and phone number (646398..) at RocketReach. It was at the time Pat Mapper example almost the same size on consumer but now Zumper is much bigger but we called it like a cheat and your job as the founder is to identify like vertical cheats where overnight you become bigger than your competitors. If you dont have those connections, I think this is where like a lot of these accelerators and incubators, Y Combinator or Techstars or Launch are really good where you can apply. Its just part of the game and it doesnt [24:30]. So for the business, Anthemos, how much capital have you guys raised today? Thats quite motivating for people. Anthemos Georgiades is the CEO and co-founder at Zumper. Really good strategy to differentiate the demographics and were super happy with how it went down. Hello, everyone, to the DealMakers Show. Were growing very quickly but none of that was true obviously in the first two years. So the way we monetize this is we either monetize the landlord mainly and we either charge them to leads. Rear mounted 3" standard exhaust port, and 2" standard air intake Exterior dimensions of unit are 24" wide, 26" deep, and 40" high with mounted controller. You look at your cofounders and you know that they understand that and that theyre not freaking out, that is where you build real institutional culture and then you try and grow that across the team. He was with HBS 10 years ago. To give you odds, at the seed stage and the series A stage of growth cuts, all about supply side where a two sided marketplace chicken an egg, on day zero you have no renters and no landlords, how do you solve that? The other large investor in this round [20:05] scale so once you have product market set, how do you scale that? Got it. So one is weve always promoted within so whenever we needed a role, we always prefer to promote someone instead of hiring from outside. Weve only been working with Axle Springer for four months now but they are fantastic. Because I speak with a ton of founders that are perhaps opening up the possibility of bringing on corporations and I think that you need to really do it right. Additionally, Anthemos Georgiades has had 2 past jobs including Consultant at The Boston Consulting Group. So we have several million users using our platform every month now which is great and next year we wanted tens of millions of users a month and were poised to doing that. I think if you set these expectations from the very beginning that are super important. Thats quite motivating for people. Yeah, sure. You know marketplaces and liquidity is king like you were pointing to finding what you need in the shortest period of time because otherwise theyre going to go elsewhere. So I guess in your guys case, how do you deal with the egos and then more importantly how did you define the responsibilities early on so that you kind of have that healthy culture going on? Not really actually. Yeah. And so I finally just gave in and thought no one is going to build this. They are brilliant about. Youre supposed to try six things that dont work. And so I finally just gave in and thought no one is going to build this. So I as British person moving to Silicon Valley in 2012 I have never run a startup before. You are going to get a bunch of nos so I wouldnt rule people out too early. Zumper which is a little bigger in terms of audience now caters more to urban professionals moving within cities. You always have more nos that more yeses in fundraising but it was ultimately about just hustling my network as much as possible. Got it. So seed, series A, series B, series C, I was always the point person in the fundraise. So tell me your story a little bit here, Anthemos. For Zumper's Georgiades, many Florida markets, such as Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, have been the big pandemic winners. And in terms of preparation, Anthemos, how has the preparation like preparing before going to market to start engaging investors, how have you seen with your business, with Zumper, how have you seen that changed over time as the rounds were maturing? Stay informed using all the free online rental data out there (like Zumper's national rent report). Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Anthemos Georgiades: Oh wow, good question. Subscribe: Google Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | RSS | More. So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. Pat Mapper caters to 25 and under and kind of big college populations. In terms of investors, I guess two comments. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. A lot of it was completely bottom up. So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? Got it. Everyone in Boston, everyone in New York were straight nos and [25:15] didnt get second meetings but then a month later we came to Silicon Valley and we found a much better product market set for the kind of investor who was prepared to come early and invest early and we got a lot of yeses very quickly. You know marketplaces and liquidity is king like you were pointing to finding what you need in the shortest period of time because otherwise theyre going to go elsewhere. Absolutely. I think just up front boundaries before you close the round is super important. This show is about storytelling and all the elements that go into telling the perfect fundraising story. How does the day to day at Zumper work? Zumper CEO and co-founder May 2012 Board and Advisor Roles Number of Current Board & Advisor Roles 1 Anthemos Georgiades is the Board Member at Zumper. And so as you mature you look for a different kind of investor and that naturally tends to happen. And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. Taylor Glass-Moore Co-Founder. So one is weve always promoted within so whenever we needed a role, we always prefer to promote someone instead of hiring from outside. Anthemos was an undergrad at Oxford when he noticed how problematic renting an apartment . Hes raising money now. How many landlords did we have on the site? Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. And the biggest change in the series C I just raised versus in the early days is having a CFO. Now my cofounders were phenomenal in bringing them to meetings. Please subscribe to unlock this content. Since 2012, Georgiades has grown Zumper to over 200 employees, 178 million annual visits, and raised $178 million in venture capital for the company. Alejandro: And did you diversify this responsibility with the other cofounders or was there one of you guys that has always been leading the chart on the financing side? It is your job not just to do the day to day but once or twice a year you should be doing stuff that has a completely linear outcome where one day youre doing you know 3 million users a month and the next day youre doing 5 million users a month. I have no experience doing that. It was at the time Pat Mapper example almost the same size on consumer but now Zumper is much bigger but we called it like a cheat and your job as the founder is to identify like vertical cheats where overnight you become bigger than your competitors. Anthemos Georgiades, Zumper, European Founder, International Founders, Marketplace The process of renting apartments hasn't changed since Craigslist was introduced. ! Yeah. And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. Every fantastic company has had hundreds of nos on the way to kind of huge outcomes and you just cant take it personally. And then now your job at five, six years in with a team of a hundred with higher and amazing executive team who are all better at doing their jobs than you would ever be and so your job is almost as a CEO is to like hire yourself out of a job where you hire people, where you look at them and you think, Wow, I cant believe you report to me. Terms & Conditions! It was kind of [31:51] as early as we did to buy another stock up that was kind of four years in. Its a good question. And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. So we bought them. It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. 1. Think Masterclass for Management. I say like in the first pitch to the day the money wires, theres always been around like a minimum of three months. Got it. They are the two ways that Zumper currently monetizes them and there are two folks that [11:35]. It seemed crazy that the real estate industry wasnt moving towards on demand. Raising money first, marketplace businesses is still really difficult and Ive raised $90 million and Im still saying it is difficult. And were they like obviously now youre opening here the cap table to a different breed and I guess when that happen probably at a strategic level lets say from a board perspective or something you know, maybe you receive some type of recommendations whether it was with this corporation or with other corporations as to what perhaps to look for and what to avoid.